So, I'm sure that a lot of you out there already got it at the midnight events and such. I'm in Longview this weekend so I have to drive to Tyler this afternoon to get mine. I know some of us have already seen the rules and all that and there's much more commentary on all that on other sites. What I want to know from you all is what do you all think of the book itself? What do you like about it? What do you dislike? Is it worthy of a whole new edition? And, most importantly, what do you think is the best thing GW did this time around?The floor is now open for discussion!
13 comments:
Finally having read through it, I must say that I'm impressed with the new book (despite the fact that I had to drive an hour to get it :P).
What do I like? The fluff! It's been a while since they've put out some new fluff that wasn't connected to whatever new thing they're selling. The timelines were really cool. It actually makes all the fear and paranoia look a little more warranted when you see that al lot of the battles, scourgings, engagements and such have been in the very recent past and getting worse.
What didn't I like? Well, besides the entire section in the back that seemed to be devoted to "go buy this stuff", I had thought there would have been more new art. Some of it was new and really good, but a lot of it was stuff we've been seeing for ages. We've seen it, guys, now show us something new.
Yes, I think it was worth a new edition and then some. :)
Lastly, the thing I liked the most is that there was a lot more point of view from the alien races than I think I have ever seen. I mean, I am a Marine player so I'm down with the Imperium, but that mono-view gets old after a while. Some of the races seemed more interesting to me for the first time (Tau, Orks, I'm talking about you).
These, of course are my first impressions. I'm sure I'll have more thoughs on it all in a few more days after I've digested it a little more...
Still reading, so I've not gotten as deep as I'd like, but...
I'm not terribly thrilled with the push toward making terrain more WYSIWYG. The problem I see is that this may end up slowing games a bit.
I love everything about the new edition. The new terrain rules rock, but then again it is a joyous return to the awesome terrain days of 2nd ed. Buildings can be popped and the battle field must be represented by actual terrain. In 4th ed troops ended up planetside by docking with the infinately high buildings. No more!
I think until we get used to it wound allocation will be a little clunky at first, but it will work out as we play more.
The big thing here, as with any rules change, is that we be terribly forgiving and patient with one another.
I liked the various alien sections, especially the Tau. They put an even better spin on the Tau's place in the 40K universe. They're what mankind used to be: idealistic, brilliant, hopeful, and full of the energy of a young race. The twist is that they came too late. They are doomed to be cut short before they ever realize their potential. Great stuff.
I don't like the LOS/Shooting rules very much. If a model is out of LOS then it should *not* be able to be shot in the face. GW is trying to have it both ways. They say that all models can be hit because their position on the board is an "abstraction"- while at the same time saying that a model is hit if a laser pointer clips an elbow. So which is it? So precise that a laser pointer can pick out a model or so abstract that a model's position isn't exact?
Transports have become much better. They are again the protective vehicles that they were designed to be. No Entanglement. No bailing out on penetrations. Very nice!
Ramming is silly. I thought we were trying to move to a 'darker, grittier' 40K. But Ramming makes it feel like a auto derby video game. At least our LGS has ruled that Ork trukks can't Ram regardless of equipment. The "powerclaw seeking missile" version of the Trukk, while very Orky, was a tad broken.
Overall I think it is a move in the right direction. The production value of the book is a vast improvement. The rules are, for the most part, much better written. A few things here and there I'd rather do without but I think it is a better game on the whole.
I agree. Leave the ramming to NASCAR and keep that demo derby crap out of this game...
Other than that, though, I would have to say I love 5E!
Re: Ramming
I haven't had a chance to see ramming rules in action so I haven't really had a chance to form an opinion of them but, speaking as someone who plays a Rhino heavy Marine army, it's nice to have another option for their use other than bunker (at which they kinda suck) and LOS blocker/shield (at which they're pretty good).
@Democratus: The power klaw guided missile thought is not correct. Here is why. The front armor of any truk is 10. It only gets the +2 to armor when resolving "Death or Glory" attacks against the truk. So if one allows truks to ram the best they could ever get is a strength 6 hit. There is a RAI reason to not allow them to ram, but not a RAW.
The real reason to disallow it is that Orks would ram with the sole intent of using an intact building, or anything with an AV greater than 11 as an egg cracker. That way the orks could have a potential charge range of 24" 1/3 of the time. This is why you want to disallow Orks from doing this.
Re: Ramming
Well, the ork/building issue could be easily fixed. You could disallow ramming against buildings or better yet, say that because buildings are built more solidly, you have to have an armor equal or or higher than attempt to ram a building because anything less would have no effect. Maybe make it so that that if the vehicle has an antitank weapon (melta, lance, etc) it can go after something with higher armor because assumably they fire their weapons at the building while they're ramming or something similar. How's that sound?
@psyberwolfe:
That's exactly what I meant when I said "powerclaw seeking missile". They ram, the truck explodes, then they charge with the power claw.
Far more effective than any other weapon in their arsenal. Fortunately, BFG will not allow Ork Trukks to Ram with the Reinforced Ram upgrade - only Tank Shock. Let's hope the other local stores come to the same conclusion.
Well so far your argument is moot because instead of letting orks do the orky thing, this house rule is encouraging them to do the smart thing. All they do is jump out at 13" which will put them at 15" away and then they assault.(They can do this because of red paint job.) So far I see this house rule as silly because if they were to ram they would run the risk of getting pinned, or ending up dumped out of their vehicle 3d6 inches in some random direction.
This is an excellent example of a house rule that has been made over a perceived threat that is more bark then bite. The truck intact having not rammed is much worse. then
The house rule is excellent. Trukks, much like the ruling on Dark Eldar skimmers, simply shouldn't be able to Ram.
I've got no problem at all with Orks jumping out of red painted trucks and Waaaghing into the enemy.
Some other stuff I've noticed after reading the 5th rules more closely.
1) You can assault a vehicle in your opponent's assault phase if you charged it last turn and it does not move. This makes a vehicle which is stunned/immobilized during assault very vulnerable. Extra Armor just got a new lease on life!
2) The 'Go to Ground' rules allow you to lay your models on their side. This can be useful for a unit screening shooty units behind. If the screening unit is shot at it can lay over - giving the shooty unit a clear shot during its own shooting phase.
3) With the exception of Barrage, scattering blast weapons still use the position of ther firer to determine cover saves. So if a template scatters out of LOS or behind cover then the defending unit gets a cover save.
4) The vehicle assault rules are very happy. Just about every vehicle out there is vulnerable now since they almost all have AV 10 in the rear. Land Raiders and Monoliths will rule the roost once again.
5) Vehicles suffering a vehicle - destroyed result disembark. But a vehcile - explodes result does not do the same. Instead the vehicle is removed and the models are placed where the vehicle used to be. This could have some interesting implications.
It's a different ball game. That's for sure!
We'll see it when we can buy it, which will be in about nine days.
The speculation/controversy/debate is interesting; as always, I'll want to read the book itself over carefully first.
I think orks should be able to ram because it's just Orky but then again they should have some restrictions I haw'nt read all of 5th edition yet but from what i've gathered ORKS SHOULD RAM!!!!!
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